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So how does one overcome embedded sin? Each person must answer the question for themselves. But, is there help. And What does help mean? I ask the question who will start the answer?

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Maurilio,
After taking some time away from this subject and upon a return to your words, I like what you are saying, more so than before.

The most poignant words, for me are when you address taking notice of our sin and what we do with it, here: Ultimately, it comes down to each one of us individually, our personal time in the Word, in prayer and meditation.
Yes, we are powerless, but only because we want to be powerless. Putting up the façade of being the model Christian only encourages us to sin more. The only way to work on not being so powerless is by submitting to it. Not by contemplating on it or following through with it. Acknowledge it, and then have a conversion (prayer if you will) with God about it.


Recognition is very important for us to get to a point of being cleansed, if you will. This reminds me so much of Josiah, the young king when he was presented with the Word of God, took notice of the "wrong" that was taking place within his influence. He had the priests tear down all of the idolartous material from out of the Temple, and had them laid out for all of Israel to see in the Kidron Valley. Israel needed to recognize how prevelant the idolatry was and know this was not how the Lord intended His House to conduct worship to Him. Everything was then burned to ash. Because of Josiah, Passover was celebrated again in Jerusalem.
2Kings 23:22 Neither in the days of the judges who led Israel nor in the days of the kings of Israel and the kings of Judah had any such Passover been observed. 23 But in the eighteenth year of King Josiah, this Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem.

So, yes, Maurilio, we need to sumit to, own up to our sins and to do that we have to recognize it as sin before any change can take place in us.
Thanks for sharing John Owen. I found his book online and found it to be a very difficult read but well worth the trouble. I think what it all comes down to, is the just will live by faith. Faith in the finished work of the cross as we recieve the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, We can become free.

James Bouck said:
I found John Owen's book "The Mortification of Sin" to be pivotal in helping me understand the role of the Holy Spirit in putting to death the embedded sin in my life.

It is an extended teaching on Romans 8:13: For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Great wisdom there.
We are encouraged to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. Just because we are not "acting out" our sinful thoughts, we think we are "safe." We fantasize, we "play" with sinful thoughts, and we find all kinds of ways to justify ourselves in spite of Christ's teaching that thinking about it (willful, purposeful considering) is the same as doing it. Then, we are "surprised" to find ourselves actually doing what we do not want to do.

Kinda reminds me of the line from the movie Casablanca, "I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling going on."
I agree with you all. Here's what helps me.

#1. His grace. What hurts so much about sin is we don't really 'stumble' or 'fall' into it. It is always a deliberate act. His grace was received (saved me) through faith and it still saves me and restores me to His joy through relying on His word of it being so.

#2. At the time of temptation I remember that my will is evil and His will is good (we still have an evil nature residing within which I call my will) - Matthew 7:11. We already know from scripture that if we are not sure if a certain act is sin we check our conscience and pray (when in doubt check it out). But most of the time we know that what we are being tempted to do is sin. So its only a question of either doing our will or God's. And this always comes down to believing or disbelieving His word (that His will is perfect and good and life to us). I've seen the results of my will. It is evil. I know this by it's results. Sometimes we begin to think we are good instead of redeemed.

#3. Every 'major' sin is preceded by 'minor' (is there such a thing) sin. A bloody nose from a fall begins with a small stumble. Ex; I choose to ignore the Holy Spirit's warning and command to neglect sleep and pray (I don't trust that God will supply the energy to get me through my work day - disbelief). Deliberate stumble. A small sin really, after all He will forgive me this 'small' disobedience.

#4. I find the practical means of walking by the Spirit is found in 1 Peter 4:1 I guess there are as many ways for this verse to become a reality in our lives as there are individuals. But I also believe there are common calls to surrender (suffer in the flesh) as in the above example.

#5. Philippians 3:13. I try to keep my eyes off myself and on Him. I know this is required if I am to walk with Him into the harvest. I think that if I were to still be in darkness, I would want someone to do the same for me. That is, "forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead".

We have so much in Christ.



Jerry Linnins said:
We are encouraged to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. Just because we are not "acting out" our sinful thoughts, we think we are "safe." We fantasize, we "play" with sinful thoughts, and we find all kinds of ways to justify ourselves in spite of Christ's teaching that thinking about it (willful, purposeful considering) is the same as doing it. Then, we are "surprised" to find ourselves actually doing what we do not want to do.

Kinda reminds me of the line from the movie Casablanca, "I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling going on."
A good resource to answer this question is the Puritan writer John Owen.  I recommend reading his work "On the Mortification of Sin".  You can read it online at Christian Classics Ethereal Library.  It is dense reading, but rewarding for the effort one puts in.

The step that sticks out most to me is confession (though there could always be more to consider). A person must be willing to come into the light - not just with God but with close friends, family or church family. Perhaps not everyone needs to know, but confessing your sin to someone close is essential if the sin is not known by anyone other than God. (It was an essential step for me to achieve victory.) Who should be the one(s) to confess to? I expect God will lead to that answer. James 5:16: "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."

 

 

One major key is understanding and believing who we are in Christ. That sin is defeated; we simply have to accept and believe this victory. Although I am not a charismatic believer (doctrinally), I highly recommend "Victory over the Darkness" by Neil Anderson. It probably helped me (and helps me; I find that I need to revisit these biblical truths regularly) overcome "embedded sin". I still struggle with these fleshly things, but find this to be the most effective for me.

Thanks for the suggestion... just found it on the internet for free in pdf format. 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the%20mortification%...

Jeff Finlay said:

Thanks for sharing John Owen. I found his book online and found it to be a very difficult read but well worth the trouble. I think what it all comes down to, is the just will live by faith. Faith in the finished work of the cross as we recieve the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, We can become free.

James Bouck said:
I found John Owen's book "The Mortification of Sin" to be pivotal in helping me understand the role of the Holy Spirit in putting to death the embedded sin in my life.

It is an extended teaching on Romans 8:13: For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Great wisdom there.

Where are we "commanded to neglect sleep and pray"?

Thomas Bridges said:

I agree with you all. Here's what helps me.

#1. His grace. What hurts so much about sin is we don't really 'stumble' or 'fall' into it. It is always a deliberate act. His grace was received (saved me) through faith and it still saves me and restores me to His joy through relying on His word of it being so.

#2. At the time of temptation I remember that my will is evil and His will is good (we still have an evil nature residing within which I call my will) - Matthew 7:11. We already know from scripture that if we are not sure if a certain act is sin we check our conscience and pray (when in doubt check it out). But most of the time we know that what we are being tempted to do is sin. So its only a question of either doing our will or God's. And this always comes down to believing or disbelieving His word (that His will is perfect and good and life to us). I've seen the results of my will. It is evil. I know this by it's results. Sometimes we begin to think we are good instead of redeemed.

#3. Every 'major' sin is preceded by 'minor' (is there such a thing) sin. A bloody nose from a fall begins with a small stumble. Ex; I choose to ignore the Holy Spirit's warning and command to neglect sleep and pray (I don't trust that God will supply the energy to get me through my work day - disbelief). Deliberate stumble. A small sin really, after all He will forgive me this 'small' disobedience.

#4. I find the practical means of walking by the Spirit is found in 1 Peter 4:1 I guess there are as many ways for this verse to become a reality in our lives as there are individuals. But I also believe there are common calls to surrender (suffer in the flesh) as in the above example.

#5. Philippians 3:13. I try to keep my eyes off myself and on Him. I know this is required if I am to walk with Him into the harvest. I think that if I were to still be in darkness, I would want someone to do the same for me. That is, "forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead".

We have so much in Christ.



Jerry Linnins said:
We are encouraged to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. Just because we are not "acting out" our sinful thoughts, we think we are "safe." We fantasize, we "play" with sinful thoughts, and we find all kinds of ways to justify ourselves in spite of Christ's teaching that thinking about it (willful, purposeful considering) is the same as doing it. Then, we are "surprised" to find ourselves actually doing what we do not want to do.

Kinda reminds me of the line from the movie Casablanca, "I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling going on."

I heartily agree with the header to this post:  People follow their passions and act on their desires.  From what I can understand of the scriptures, we sin and continue to sin because we love the objects of our sinfulness.  Jesus called the pharisees lovers of money or of praise.  John urges us not to love the world nor the things of this world.  Israel loved sacred raisin cakes for goodness sake!  How are we able to break such a bondage?  We overcome our love for sin with a greater and more fulfilling love.  We respond to the love of the one who first loved us with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

When I spend time with guys, I listen not for what they are doing wrong, but to what they love - for good and for bad.  It's at that point that I can investigate their hearts affection with them and begin tempting them with a more beautiful option - namely the Savior of the world.

Being new to this forum I'd better quiet my keyboard and see if anyone is out there.

OK George:  I see embedded sin as those sins that I hold close too that I don't necessarily want others to be aware of. Examples would be porn, substance abuse, etc.  Those things that I would not necessarily want on the 6:00 news som the whole world will know.

George Krickl said:

OK: I will admit I am ignorant. What is meant by embedded sin?

The pain (of the sin) has to out do the (pleasure) "gain" from the sin. If you can envision a chart with two lines. One going up for pain/shame of sin and one starting up going down, which is the gain from sin. (Sin in pleasureable, passing though it may be). The intersection is where the pain and gain meet. Any place after that is where people stop their sin. It is similar to the law of diminishing return, except this is for sin. People with embedded sins need to reach that point, even if they have to do it on purpose (get caught). 

I was talking with someone who leads Celebrate Recovery at church. He was telling me of an alcoholic who wanted to quit, and asked him, "What will it take you to quit?" The alcoholic said, "I guess, getting arrested for DUI." My friend told him, "Then get arrested." Pain (in whatever form be it mental, emotional or physical) needs to out do the gain. This goes for any sin that catches us--be it gossip, immorality, drunkeness, or anger. 

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